Marriage in Real Life
Marriage in Real Life
Navigating Divorce and Building Resilience Through Faith and Communication
Ever wondered how to navigate the turbulent waters of divorce while maintaining personal growth and resilience? Dr. Erica Holman, a compassionate sister from Dallas, Texas, joins us to share her profound journey through the complexities of divorce as a military spouse with a blended family. Her narrative is one of courage and transformation, as she opens up about the emotional and financial challenges that accompanied her path, including the impact on her children's perceptions of relationships. Erica's story offers a beacon of hope and strength, showing us how vulnerability can lead to healing and empowerment.
Communication lies at the core of our discussion, as we emphasize its critical importance in preventing emotional disconnection in relationships. Erica's insights on the emotional toll of divorce, alongside her battles with PTSD, provide a poignant reminder of the power of open dialogue and proactive communication. By exploring the profound impact of faith and personal relationships during her trials, we uncover how understanding and compassion can steer relationships away from the brink of divorce. We dive deep into the societal pressures and personal convictions that shape marriages, highlighting the need for discernment and personalized counsel in navigating the "four A's"—addiction, adultery, abuse, and abandonment.
Our heartfelt conversation also addresses the challenges of navigating divorce within the church community and the lack of support often faced by individuals. We call for better support systems and a compassionate, non-judgmental approach from church and community members. As we reflect on the pathways to building lasting love, we invite our listeners to engage with us and continue this dialogue, fostering healthier relationships through the spirit of compassion, understanding, and faith. Join us in celebrating resilience and the power of communication, as we embark on this journey to inspire lasting love and resilience in marriages everywhere.
Season 3 intro done by Carolena
Season 3 Outro done by Carolena
Watch the live show on Youtube.
Follow us on Facebook & Instagram at @marriageinreallifepodcast
Well, welcome to Marriage in Real Life. Yes, welcome, welcome. Thank you for joining us. Yes, yes, yes, thank you for joining us tonight. Oh boy, I'm excited about tonight, are you? I am All right, all right. Well, my name is Eric Us, Lady P. All right, all right, and we're Marriage in Real Life Podcast. Marriage in Real Life podcast. One of the highlights is that I got an email from last week and out of they said congratulations, marriage in real life.
Speaker 2:You are number 21 out of 40 married podcasts in the United States. The top 40.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're in the top 40 and we're number 21. So that's a good thing, it's a very good thing considering.
Speaker 2:It's been a journey, but it's been well worth it, right, right.
Speaker 1:So I want to say this Thank you to our audience, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Thank you guys so much for sticking in there with us tuning in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we give a shout out to our audience. That's right, that's right. I'm ready to get in the top. Are you ready, all right? Well, we have a, a, a dear sister of ours we don't want to say friend. We have a dear sister of ours, um, that we've known from many years Right, we shared many meals and everything like that and so she is Dr Erica Holman. You reminded me of that, yeah, dr Erica Holman, and she's.
Speaker 1:You know, she lived, you know, through one of life's hardest challenges, and that was divorce. When it comes down to marriage, you know that's divorce and what a thing about it is. What I love about her is that she came out on the other side. All right, we give a shout out, but there are so many people that came out of divorce and we're going to talk about I mean, she's going to share the reason why, and you will see why we, we are saying what we're saying that she came out on the other side, um, but we know what, sometimes with divorce, it, man, it breaks you, it, it, you know, it does that and does mess up the kids and messed up everything, especially this, this type, what happened. And so I am so proud of her that she came out on the other side.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure it wasn't easy, you know, but she you that she came out on the other side. I'm pretty sure it wasn't easy, you know, but she, you know, she came out. So we're going to start with her story and we're going to get it. So we want to welcome Dr Erica Holman all the way from Dallas, texas. Hey, erica, how you doing?
Speaker 4:I'm'm good. How about you guys?
Speaker 1:uh, we, we doing good, we, we you know, we, you know we, we hanging in there yeah, we hanging in there. Yeah, that's what we're doing. We are hanging in there, grace of god. Yeah, so how's the weather up there at in um um dallas? How's the weather up in the dallas?
Speaker 4:not as cold today. A A lot of cloud cover. They're talking rain the next couple of days, so not as cold.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, I know it snowed up there oh that's good weather there, that's good weather, that's good weather, right, right, hey, I want to say hey, nikki, how you doing?
Speaker 1:Nikki, oliver from Tallahassee. Hey, nikki, all right. So, erica, we're going to get right into it, all right. I don't know if we want to say any names tonight. We don't want to say any names or whatever like that those who know, they know. But those who don't know, they don't need to know the name. But we know you, that's right, and so what we know, you, you know, that's right, and so what we want to do, we just want to, you know, start out by sharing your personal story, you know. So just just tell us about your journey. You know where you're from, you know things like that, and just get into the journey. So you, you got the flow.
Speaker 4:OK. So basically I'm from journey. So you, you got the flow Okay. So basically, um, I'm from Tennessee. Both me and my ex-husband were from Tennessee, uh, from the same little small hometown, and got married and basically life happened literally, Um, you know, he uh served in the United States Marine Corps, Um, so I was a military spouse. So you have to add in that dynamic as well. We talk in marriage and sometimes you have to be giving of yourself and some of the things you want to do as a spouse. So I think that's relevant to my story.
Speaker 4:We stationed all over the world for lack of a better word East Coast, West Coast, overseas, Been there, done that, we did that. In addition to that, we did have a blended family. We had a his, hers and ours type situation. That's relevant to my story as well. And in addition to a his, hers and ours, we had another his outside the home to a his, hers and ours. We had another, his outside of the home. That's relevant as well when it talks about the effects of divorce on the children. So that's why I mentioned that.
Speaker 4:So basically, we were in the twilight of our career and I say our cause. I served as well, even though I didn't physically take the oath, I just felt because of the sacrifices I made, I felt like I was a Marine as well, and so, basically, we've got this family, the kids. At this point in our lives Everyone has graduated, left home. We're at the peak of life for most people's peak of life. He's retired from. You know, he retired from the military. I had a good job and I had always said that once he retired, I was going to focus on my career and he was going to be a kept man.
Speaker 4:That was my, that's what I, you know, that's the conversations as me and my girlfriends always talk. That's the pillow talk him and I always had.
Speaker 4:When he retired, I would take care of him. So, long story short, we were. After he retired, we stayed in California where we both served at our local church. We were youth pastors as well as we were over the marriage ministry, and I think that's that's important to talk about too. So we were part of the over the marriage ministry. We actually started the small group at our local church there ministry, we actually started the small group at our local church there.
Speaker 4:And so one of the things I will say he did suffer from mental illness. He had a traumatic brain injury, ptsd, bipolar all the things you could possibly think of when it comes to mental health he suffered from. But he was still able to maintain a job. You know, service country and as a civilian, like I said, hold down a job. And so, basically, what happened, the long and short of it all you know, when certain events happen in your life, you just never forget it because it's just burnt in your brain.
Speaker 4:And this particular day was a Wednesday night, like a Wednesday night, bible study, and him and I would often take turns teaching the teens in Bible study, and so, on this particular night, he was going to take the teens and I was going to. Well, I had been charged with teaching Bible study in the main sanctuary for the adults on this particular night, and so he prayed with me. I went and taught in the sanctuary, church was over. He asked how it went, all the things we got in our car and we drove home. We lived about 45 minutes from the church and we are creatures of habit. There was nothing out of the ordinary that had happened that day. We stopped at our Mexican restaurant, got our food to go, went home, popped on the couch, watched Survivor.
Speaker 4:Next morning it's a Thursday morning because I commuted to work, I typically rode in a vanpool, and this particular morning he had told me he had a meeting and I said, well, I'm going to drive myself to work because I can't trust that you'll be out of your meeting by the time the vanpool people drop me off. And he's like no, I'll get you. But I insisted on driving myself and so he walked me to the car and when we got to the car I remember like it was yesterday I said, oh, I forgot to take something out for dinner and he said, babe, don't worry about it, we'll figure out supper when you get home. We get home. I was like, ok, he opened the car door, gave me kids, told me he loved me and I didn't see him for almost five years after that moment.
Speaker 4:He didn't come home that day. He did not come home that day. So to say I was blindsided is literally an understatement, because I don't have the testimony of a tumultuous marriage. I don't have the testimony of being abused. I don't have the testimony of my husband has some sort of addiction. I don't have that story. So it's like I said to be to say I was completely blindsided. I was completely blindsided and that's my story. Wow.
Speaker 1:Whoa, that's, that's, that's, that's. You know so. So let me ask you. So let me in. I know you say you didn't, you know you didn't. You know the marriage is good and everything like that. But you know, looking back, you know, in the marriage or in the times coming up leading up to when he left, were there early signs that things was headed, you know towards what was going on? Were there anything that that that prompted that you know, to him leaving, prior to him leaving, or what?
Speaker 4:Truthfully, eric, that's one of the things I have struggled with, because I've tried to go back and replay life, like where did I miss it? How did I miss it? And the irony of all of this is about maybe about two months before he actually left. Maybe about two months before he actually left, he was being vetted through the Department of State because he took a job as a independent contractor overseas and I remember he went on the East Coast to some sort of training and he sent me a text message and he pretty much in essence said he really wanted to focus on me and him. It was time out for playing games. And I'm looking at the text like who's been playing games? I missed the memo or something basically really just declaring his just a recommitment to us you know he said, it's just time to just focus on us.
Speaker 4:So, to be honest, eric, I cannot sit here and tell you or Patsy that I saw red flags or warning signs, because I literally did not see it coming or see any of it coming. And one of the things, like I said, that's probably the hardest thing I've struggled with is just trying to figure out how did I miss it. Because one of the things that my spiritual mom told me during this time she said Minister Erica, he was gone before he physically left. Now that messed me up, I'm going to be honest, it literally messed me up. I'm going to be honest, it literally messed me up. I'm like whoa, because in my mind I thought things were good Now. We had a marriage like everyone else, we had heated fellowship and different things like that. But I can sit here today with all integrity in me. My children will tell you they never heard me and him ever argue. Anything we did, we did behind closed doors. We didn't fight over money. Our biggest arguments was always behind the kids, just because of the blended family situation. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, wow, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah that. All right.
Speaker 2:Well, now let's get into the divorce thing okay, but you know, a lot of times, um, women are blindsided a lot of times because of the communication, the lack of communication men don't like to share, they don't like to open up and say what's really going on and how they really feel. So we assume that everything is okay when in fact it really ain't. And then that makes us think well, wait a minute. Like Erica said, did I miss something here? Because, hmm, I don't recall this, or I don't recall that what happened? And just the fact that someone would say they're gone long before they leave. That's a true statement, I've seen it a lot.
Speaker 1:So communication, I mean I mean you always bring it up by communication is the key and I think, as you stated, you know many times before and I think I've stated is that men, we need to communicate what's going on with us, Right, we need to communicate. If there's something mentally going on and and we're checking out or whatever, we need to sit down. You know I think we talked about it on one podcast is having hard discussions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was a season, the end of season one.
Speaker 1:We got. You have to have hard discussions. If you're not feeling this I mean, I'm talking about men and women If you're not feeling this and you're not you know I'm not feeling this and I'm not feeling that, I'm feeling this such a way we have to sit down and have hard discussions, because if you don't have hard discussions, it may come out to how Erica is. You know what I mean, right? Because if, like her spiritual mom said that he was gone mentally before he was gone physically, that means he had been dealing with something in his mind, but he didn't come and tell Erica. You know what I need to talk to you.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm going through something, yes, right.
Speaker 1:I'm saying I talk, I need to talk to you, I'm going through something so you can help me. Right, you know? So, he, he, he should have, you know, he should have done that to sit down and communicate with her and say this is what's going on and not just leave. You know that's very hard. That's very hard. So communication is a key.
Speaker 2:It's definitely a key and I'll state my life on it. If you don't talk to me, that's one gift that God does not give us, and that's the gift of reading each other's mind. If you don't tell me, I don't know, I can't crack open your skull and read it.
Speaker 2:If you don't tell me I do not know and I'm not going to try and figure it out, because that's going to drive me crazy trying to figure out what's wrong. So yeah, I totally get that and sometimes you know, when you think, like she said, I'm going to hold on to that when they've already checked out.
Speaker 1:Gone. So we would say you know, people may say, well, why y'all talking about divorce tonight? I'm trying to. I think we are saying that it is a reality, Divorce is a reality, but divorce doesn't have to be your reality. Amen, Right, I got to give you some claps on that, Right, Divorce does not have to be your reality because somebody else maybe we had the poll tonight of how many people know people that know of divorce. You know, and let me see what's that poll? We had 92%, 92% of 12 votes say they know somebody who's been through divorce. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you got to go through it. Right, you got to make sure that you communicate. You got to make sure you know that communication. You got to make sure you do that so you won't go through. And I just wanted to tonight to just say give you, you know, a horror about you, you know, so you can't. You say, man, I don't want to go through that. Maybe I don't want to go through that. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's not worth yeah, it's not worth it to go through that. So nuggets, yeah, just for nuggets, right. So, erica, how? So in this, in the in the divorce, right in the in the divorce, what are? Some emotional and financial impact that affects you and even the children because of the divorce?
Speaker 4:Well, I would say I was actually diagnosed with PTSD as a result of my divorce, whoa. Actually diagnosed with PTSD as a result of my divorce, whoa? Because I literally felt like I was in a snow globe. You know how a snow globe when you shake it and the snow just falls.
Speaker 4:I felt that was my life at one time. It felt like everything around me was falling apart because I built my entire life behind or on I do. This man promised me forever and I built my life on this. My spirit was crushed. I was angry with God. And then what it did to my daughter when I look at the impact it has had on her more than anybody, it makes me mad. I'm being honest. Makes me mad, makes me angry honest.
Speaker 4:It makes me mad it makes me angry, because she was a true daddy's girl, oh yes, and when I look at my boys and to hear their response and the lack of respect, that decision that he made, that lack of respect that they instantly had for him, it broke my heart for him, because their words to me was everything that he told us, as men, to not do, he did.
Speaker 4:So, as a mom, I want to make sure my kids are okay, but then it's happening to me, so I really didn't have time to how do I focus on me and try to make sure my kids are good? Now the you know, some people would say well, erica, your kids are grown, but our kids are still our kids and we often lose sight of that. Oh, because our kids reach a certain age, they are still our kids and we often lose sight of that. Because our kids reach a certain age, they are still our children and they still have emotions and things like that, as if they were 3 or 5 or 10 or 13. So what I've seen the impact that it's had on the family emotionally. It messed us all up. It messed us all up in some shape, form or fashion.
Speaker 4:And when I look at the oldest, I see him following in his father's footsteps. He's a runner, he's a runner. I look at my daughter and she has no faith in anything anybody says, especially when it comes to a man Wow, Wow, wow. And then that middle one of mine blesses hard. He just wants the kumbaya and everybody be happy, you know. And then my bonus daughter. There's just no relationship there.
Speaker 4:And she is closer with me than she is with him and that's her blood. I'm not so that impact my youngest daughter. She's been in therapy. She was in therapy for about three years. I was in therapy for about three years. I was in therapy. Sometimes we need a prescription and a scripture. I always say a prescription.
Speaker 1:A prescription. All right, I like that.
Speaker 4:Sometimes it's needful and necessary. So that's the impact that it had on us emotionally Some days I didn't know if I was coming or going. Oftentimes, like I said, just being transparent with you guys, I felt like I had committed emotional suicide wow, oh, man, you know.
Speaker 1:So that's the emotional, that's man, and for years.
Speaker 2:It doesn't go away.
Speaker 1:It just don't go away yeah, yeah, it just don't go away. Wow, wow, I'm so sorry to hear that. You know what, what? So that's the emotional that it had on you and, uh, your kids. What about the financial impact?
Speaker 4:oh, lord, have Lord, have mercy.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 4:The God be the glory you come out on the other side. Really.
Speaker 4:So we literally had four paychecks coming to that house. He was getting his paycheck from his job, his disability and his retirement, and then mine. We always ran our household on one bank account. We didn't have separate accounts. We didn't do anything. We were on the 10-10-80 plan 10% tithes, 10% for ourselves and the other 90 was to pay bills. And he always said that we can't do good with the other 90. I mean the other 80. I'm sorry, 80, not 90. Then we got a problem. So 10, 10, 80 plan.
Speaker 4:And so when he left, of course I attributed to his mental health thinking he, because he had suffered from short-term memory, I just thought he just couldn't find his way home. And after he'd been gone about 24 hours I know it's nothing but the spirit told me check the bank account, maybe he's just card somewhere or something like that y'all. I didn't have 500 in the bank and we were doing the dave ramsey. Um, we had just done the financial peace thing at church, probably two months prior. So we were on the envelope system and so we were the, we were putting money in envelopes and things like that. Gone, that was gone. I didn't have $500. Now I just told you we had four incomes. Three of those belong to him. Initially I would say the first. I'm going to give him six months. He continued making sure to bill.
Speaker 2:I had money for bills and stuff like that, but no extra, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:He was sending money, but after six months he decided he no longer had any financial responsibility or obligations in California because he wasn't there.
Speaker 1:Y'all were still married, though, right, y'all were still married.
Speaker 4:We were still married and he stopped sending money for bills. He changed his direct deposit all the things, his direct deposit, all the things. So on paper, on paper. I probably should have lost our house. I probably should have lost my car because prior to this, he left in July and mother said he just bought me a brand new car, brand spanking new car.
Speaker 4:So I had this car note. I had rent in California, I had electric in California Southern California, by the way, in the desert Not to mention just our bills. And I hadn't even mentioned. I haven't even had groceries yet and all I had was my income. And did I mention I had a mortgage in Tennessee as well? So I'll be real transparent. My credit score went from probably high 700s to about 400 because I had to make a decision. Probably high 700s to about 400. Because I had to make a decision. Do I worry about credit cards or do I worry about the necessities? Necessities is rent, electric, my car payment, car insurance. Literally, I had to make a decision. I couldn't worry about credit cards, I couldn't worry about, I just couldn't. But to god be the glory, I'm not gonna say no, like, like, oh, what was me? I bought a house on my own. You know what?
Speaker 4:I mean right, right I say that just to just to encourage someone else. It may look bad, it may feel bad, it hurts like crazy. You don't understand it. Oh, let me, let me back up, because I will be doing a disservice to the God I serve, and I paid my tithes. I paid my tithes.
Speaker 1:So you're saying, through all of this, he's gone. You're barely getting by. You got all. Your credit score is 700, go down to 400, you still gave God what was due to him.
Speaker 4:I had to.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 4:And that was something I say this with every fiber in my being that was something I knew I could not waver about and because of that, because of that, like I just told you on paper I don't know how I made it, but I never missed a rent payment. But I never missed a rent payment. I never missed a mortgage payment. I never missed a car note I never. I maybe ate good all the time in California. I was still able to travel. But and I know it's because you can't be God given you, take care of the kingdom, he will take care of you. And when I said he sustained me, you know I, you, you've always heard, you've heard me say this before. It's easy to talk about God being a provider when you have a job and an income coming in yes, sir but when you lose that job, is he still your provider?
Speaker 4:And although I didn't lose my job, I lost a source of income. I mean a resource of income because he was my true source. And it just goes without saying you can't be God given when it comes to that type. Can't be God given when it comes to that type. You just can't.
Speaker 1:Now Ferg, um, he, I mean, he's been saying things um throughout and you know, uh, but this last one, when we talked about the kids and the emotional things with the kids and emotion with you, um, he says this shouldn't make spouses look at each other and their family and say that we need to recommit to each other, as divorce affects way more than just you two.
Speaker 2:And what you think. And I think a lot of times people don't realize that. And you know, as an educator, I see it in the classroom, you know. I see it in the hallway classroom, you know, I see it in the hallway. It affects everybody in so many different, like Erica said, in so many different avenues and routes that we so busy trying to focus and pull ourselves together, we forget what you know. Okay, let me check on Junior, let me see what baby girl going through, because it's trying to pull everything together and, plus, keep yourself sane. So it does affect. I totally agree with that, fred. Affect everything You're coming yourself sane. So it does affect. I totally agree with that. It affects everything you're coming and going. So, like Erica said, sometimes she didn't know she was coming and going.
Speaker 4:Well, and I would add as well I'm going to use us as an example Just us being friends and the closeness that we all shared, being transparent. It was hard watching you guys do family things, and my family was broken Because we were a part of it. Right.
Speaker 4:And then it was gone, and so I found myself pulling back, distancing myself, not because you had done anything, but the world that I was in and had created or thought was there. It no longer looked the same, and that's why I say divorce is so much bigger than the two individuals. You guys never had to pick a side or anything like that. You know what I mean, because he kind of picked the side for you, for lack of a better word. But I struggled with that. I, when I say struggle, and it's still hard for me sometimes to be around um couples or families, because my family is so fractured, it's so fractured, and so when it comes time for the holidays, you know again, my kids are not babies, they're adults, but them having to decide. Do we call our dad, do we include him in that? Do we call our?
Speaker 4:dad, do we include him in that? Then the grandbabies you know what does that look like. And so it's important that people not just look at themselves and how a divorce decision or conversation is so much bigger than. Oh, I don't like you today and I just don't want to do this. Just throw my hands up and I'll just do a shameless plug. You know a book that I was reading by Miles Monroe. It's called Single, married, separated and Life After Divorce, and one of the things he talked about in the book is, when you buy something, a manufacturer generally issues warranties with their product, right. And then a warranty really guarantees that the manufacturer will take care of the product if there's some sort of defect. God is a manufacturer of marriage, right, right. So with that warranty it will be honored free of charge, at no cost to the consumer, if there are two conditions met, right. The first condition you can't take it, the product, to an unauthorized source for repairs. Oh, right Right.
Speaker 4:Two, two you can't try to fix it yourself, and that's where the problem comes in. When it comes to marriage. We go to unauthorized resources for repair Mm, hmm. And then we try to fix it ourselves, but we have the expectation that the manufacturer is going to guarantee success.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, that's deep. John Russell says. I wanted to let you know, erica, I don't know if you are reading things, but it says thank you for sharing your vulnerability with us. Although you mentioned earlier you didn't have a specific testimony, I believe what you just shared is a testimony, so just wanted to let you know that. And you know what you just said.
Speaker 1:And again, we talked about how it affects the kids. You just mentioned how it affects your friends. Right, because I'm going to be honest, because, since we've been transparent, it was like, okay, what, how do we function? Yeah, what, how do we function? Yeah, yeah, how, what did we do? You know we weren't, you know we weren't part of it. And how do we function as friends, knowing that you know that Ferg had lost Donna? Right, and I know Ferg is online and Ferg had lost Donna. What was going on with you and then me and Patsy is it's like you know we're still here and so to us it's like how do we handle all of this? I don't know about you, babe, but that's how I feel. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know. You know you can say how you felt.
Speaker 2:I don't know, you're just being quiet, but you can say it, I'm not being quiet, I'm just like well, first of all, I felt, like you know, we were all family. You know, and I tell people all the time, like you know, we became family. We were aunties to each other's children, we were uncles to each other's children. We had children the same age. They grew, they grew together, we fellowshiped, we did everything and when this happened, it was like whoa and like Erica was blindsided me and Donna was like well, what we really. You know, I was really at a loss of words, as I am still at a loss of words that she's no longer with us, but it was mind-blowing and I did feel some sort of way. I can't express how I felt then. My heart was broken, my heart was broken for my friend and I didn't know how to support, just be that ear.
Speaker 1:Right, right, anytime you need me.
Speaker 2:But it affected all of us Definitely because it was affecting her and them, our nephews and our nieces. So it was a lot to you know, and I was praying night and day. I was like, oh boy, this is not good.
Speaker 1:So it affects you and your husband, it affects the children, it affects your family. I mean your friends, right, because, depending on what we know, this situation, so we know we want, we want to choose another side, right, but you know. But depending on the you know you're getting divorced, you have friends that might choose one side or the other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, but it also affects your church yes so, erica, how did it affect your church with that? Because both of y'all was ministers in the church, right? Uh, youth pastors and everything. So how did that affect your affect your church? Did he call back to the church and say what was going on, or how did that affect that?
Speaker 4:So no, he, um, my pastors were probably the first people I called, uh, when I realized he was gone. And it just we happened. We had convocation that started that Thursday night. He was scheduled to teach. I had just literally had just had surgery to recover from surgery and I stepped in, taught his class. I didn't, I don't think anybody knew other than my pastors that he was gone. I didn't tell anybody. I never really told anybody like what happened. I think they just at some point just figured it out, the members. But for me I never stopped serving.
Speaker 4:When I say I never stopped serving. I did not stop serving. He never reached back out to them. They made attempts to contact him. He was unresponsive and I will say and I'm not trying to be petty or anything like that but he continued to operate in the office of minister, preaching and all the things that he was doing in the office of minister, preaching and all the things that he was doing.
Speaker 4:And I did reach out to him and I told him I'm not reaching out to you as your wife, I'm reaching out to you as your sister in Christ. You can't do this, you're out of pocket, you're out of order. You can't do this. There's some things you got to work on, you know. You got to get somewhere and sit down. He told me don't worry about it, don't worry about him. So, but no, he continued to operate in his quote unquote call. But as for me, I continue to serve and I thank God I had the support of my pastors Because I had every reason and when in my mind I had every reason to quit, like literally I had every like.
Speaker 4:I'm not doing this, you know. But I never stopped serving and I, and I believe again. To God be the glory. It was my faith. It was my faith in God. And I remember, when I realized he wasn't coming home, I was laying prostrate in my living room floor, literally, not figuratively, literally just crying out to God. And I remember telling God if this is your will, I still give you a yes.
Speaker 4:I said God, all I ask, all I ask, god is I don't want to feel lonely, but, god, I give you a yes. Remember, like it was yesterday Remember like it was yesterday and he honored it.
Speaker 4:When I say he honored it, he honored it, he honored it. It was some rough days, meaning like mentally, but as far as feeling lonely and all that. God knew what I needed, because that's when little Giovanni and little Ezra came in my life and you know the Marines that were there, that you know connected with me, and they had no idea that my life, I always say it, was like a snow globe and everything was just falling around me and these folks came in and loved on me and when they realized what I was dealing with and going through, their look they're looking at me like wait what had no idea.
Speaker 4:And I learned through all that what God showed me, that the pain that I went through was not for me, it was for somebody else I won't, you know, share their business. But the women that God was sending my way and I ministered to them about their marriages and I'm seeing God restore and reconcile and heal relationships and I'm like, ok, really You're doing that for them. She don't even really want him, she don't want to do right, but I'm seeing God restore, I'm seeing him reconcile. And I was angry, patsy, I was so angry with God. Thank God I walked it out in integrity that I didn't believe on those young women. But to see those marriages healed and restored and different things like that, I give all praise and honor to God. And it took me a while to realize that the things that we go through oftentimes is not for ourselves and it did not mean that the plans that God had for my marriage, that the prophetic words that were spoken over us, it wasn't that God lied, but God's not going to cross the threshold of human responsibility.
Speaker 1:Talk to us.
Speaker 4:If he did not want to be married or be in a marriage, it wasn't going to happen. I don't care how many times the bishop prayed y'all prayed, I prayed. If that's not what he wanted, it wasn't going to happen. And that was a hard pill for me to swallow and really mature and understand that we cannot pray against someone's own will. They have to surrender their will and no matter how bad, I wanted my marriage to be restored, reconciled and healed. If that's not what my husband wanted, it wasn't going to happen and a lot of people don't understand it. It's a growth you have to grow into that spiritually. You have to grow into that to really understand the heaviness and the burden of that. But it just wasn't going to happen.
Speaker 1:And when I realized that it was just like okay, well, I need to change my prayer okay so I want to ask you this, because me and pastor we often, when when couples are going through something and we're counseling, we often ask this question. And I want to ask you this question from your own personal thing Do you believe that your ex-husband had a little, just a little bit of love for you? And I'm talking about married love. And I'm not saying, hey, you're the mother of my kids, I love you. I'm saying, does you, do you think that he had a little bit of love for you? Yeah.
Speaker 1:So in the followup, do you think that, if you do, if both of you all would have went to counseling, do you think there could have been reconciliation or anything like that?
Speaker 4:When he first left, absolutely, but as time went on, I guess I shouldn't leave this part of the story out. He left in 2015. I filed for divorce in 2015. I filed for divorce in 2017. Our divorce was not final until 2022. Five years.
Speaker 4:So the reason for the delay in me filing was being obedient to God. He hadn't released me from my marriage, he hadn't. And the word that he showed me, he was given time and space for him to come back. And in my mind I'm saying, come back. Oh, I ain't no coming back, you know, because at this point he's been gone a little while. You know, at this point it's been like a year. So, yeah, and so I remember being when, when, just during my devotion time, and when god told me I was released, I filed for marriage, and I mean filed for divorce, and didn't look back did you have a question, babe?
Speaker 1:you was getting ready to say something. I cut you up. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2:I lost the train of thought. When do you think is the right time? When do you think? When do you think like enough is enough?
Speaker 4:well, to me it's you got the one thing I tell people, even that I mentor. Now, only the individual person knows when enough is enough, because my barometer, how I measure enough, may not be the same measurement that you use. You know when enough is enough. I believe in the sanctity of marriage, but when it comes to, I say, the four A's addiction, adultery, abuse and abandonment only that individual knows when enough is enough. But you got to have to me, you got to be in relationship and fellowship with God for that and fellowship with God for that.
Speaker 2:I have another question before you go to the conference.
Speaker 1:No, I'm just talking, I'm doing the four A's, that's good.
Speaker 2:Hey, the four A's, I'm like that's good, eric, you always make me lose my thought. Okay so, oh, okay, this is it. You know, like growing up in the church we've always said, oh, you got to prepare yourself for marriage. You know that you're growing up as a young girl and you got to prepare yourself for marriage. You know you got to get married, you got to have some babies, you got to raise them up, you got to be a good wife, you got to be a submissive wife and all that wonderful stuff they tell you.
Speaker 2:But when you start going through things in your marriage and you go to the church and you have some of them that say, well, pray about it. What would be your advice to a young person that's going through something similar? She wants to get out, but she don't want to because she stood before God in the church. She feel like she should stick around. If you go to the church and say what's going on, she gets the whole. You know, just pray for me, we'll put his name on the prayer list, or we'll put her name on the prayer list, however it goes. So what would be your advice for some young woman that find herself in that situation?
Speaker 4:So I'm just going to be Erica here, okay. So in a situation like that, I've got to know where they are spiritually, because what happens is people have their own ideologies of this picture perfect marriage and what it should look like, versus what how God designed marriage to be, what, how God designed marriage to be. That's like if I make a cake and I put too much bacon powder in it, all right and the cake it doesn't turn out right. Do I blame the point, the pan? Do I blame the oven? There's nothing wrong with the bacon powder. There's nothing wrong with the butter. There's nothing wrong with the sugar. It's the ingredients. You see what I'm saying, yeah, so sometimes the ingredients, sometimes the ingredients are wrong, and what I mean by that is when you're dealing with individuals, you got to look at what their makeup is, what their convictions are. So I would have to know a little bit more about the individual before I gave counsel, because you got to know what their convictions are, what their moral compass is looking like, what their relationship with God is, what their understanding of what marriage is designed to be, as opposed to how the world has defined marriage, because if a young lady is in an abusive marriage or relationship. That's a different conversation. And I will say this his mental health was wearing on me before he left, I'll be honest. It was wearing on me because when he would call me, I would see his name and picture in my phone. On me because when he would call me, I would see his name and picture in my phone and it would give me anxiety because I never knew what was on the other side.
Speaker 4:I say that to say this. It was I wanted to check out, like for real, like I didn't have enough, because if he doesn't think enough of himself to go get some help, I can't do this. And I went to my pastor and said, hey, I can't do this. And I went to my pastor and said, hey, I can't do this. Going back to your question, your question, patsy pastor may look me dead in my face and she said these words. She said, minister Erica, he's sick. She said he's sick. She said if he was diagnosed with cancer, you wouldn't leave him. What makes this any different? So, going back to your question, it would. There would be so much more that would play into what the response is, and a lot of times we're so quick to give a cookie cutter response.
Speaker 2:But we need to know what we're really working with okay, okay, yeah, if that makes any sense, it does, absolutely it does. I think a lot of times people don't want to embarrass themselves, or they don't want to shame the church, or they don't want to go to them and they don't want to, you know, be like, well, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm divorcing him, but first of all, you know you gotta anything. So I always tell women when I'm talking to them or just in general, if somebody come to you and they tell you something, you go to the Lord, because if it's going to line up, if it don't line up, then it's take what I have to say, spit out the bones or whatever. You know it's going to line up. If somebody come to you and somebody say something to you, it's going to line up with the Word of God if you take it to the Lord in prayer.
Speaker 4:So you have to be careful Not to cut y'all past, but even in that we have to be careful, taking one principle that's in the Word and applying it to every situation.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, because we take that Word Because I'm going to be honest. When I first was going through this divorce and life was happening, I went to the word to see what it said about divorce and had I not done a deeper dive in the word and spent time with God, I would have been led to believe that I can't get remarried because if I get remarried I'm committing adultery.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 4:That's that part. But you, but you still saying so, even in that you have to be careful to not take a principle or command and apply to every situation. That's good, right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's good right there. Yeah, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 4:You know, I didn't know Abraham remarried. Did y'all know that? Yeah. Yeah, and had six more kids.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I mean I'm going. Matter of fact, that says I'm going through the Bible in a day on praycom, and it was talking about how he remarried. Oh, you want to talk about Abraham and his son, how they were just both alike. You know telling Bob you know, but anyway, all right, all right. So what lessons from your experience could help other couples avoid divorce?
Speaker 4:Patsy said it best communication, because the first conversation I had with him. This is after he'd been gone about 24 hours. He finally called me and his words to me was cause he? He called and answered for I'm like where are you? Cause I'm thinking something has happened. He says, eric, I don't want to do this. He says you're a good woman and you're going to find a man that's going to love you the way you deserve. I don't want another man.
Speaker 4:You're my husband but what stuck out is he said I don't want to do this. Had he sat me down and we had a conversation, all this other stuff could have been avoided you with the kids and all that but in the moment you don't think like that. So the the lesson is communicating even with I probably should have been more involved with his mental health. So, as spouses, when we know they're going through something, you don't have to be all in a business but just go and say how can I help? How can I help Versus giving, telling them what they need to be doing?
Speaker 2:Y'all you know, you need to go there.
Speaker 4:No, how can I help? Because when it came to his mental health, I was just over like, look, you didn't go go talk to your doctor about this Cause. This up and down is just too much, but communicate, communicate about everything, everything yeah, yeah you got a question in the in the chat.
Speaker 2:In the chat, um from first is when um. Why do you think he didn't? Why do you think he didn't file for divorce?
Speaker 4:You know, I wonder that myself, because I went through three sets of process service trying to get him served, trying to get him to court to release, you know, just to end it. So I don't know why he didn't file. And even after I filed, he, he bought me tooth and nail and we didn't have kids to fight over, we had a house, but we weren't even fighting over the house, he just so why he didn't file? I wish he would have told me that I don't know, would have told me that I don't know. Wow, I anticipated it. I did anticipate it, but he had been gone two years and I was just like, okay, god, you know, I, I can't sit and just wait, and a lot of people do that. But I wasn't doing that because I know that's not what god had for me. Yeah, so let Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So let me ask you this what, what daily habits that you think are practices, could help couples reconnect prior to you know that? That dreaded talk of divorce.
Speaker 4:So I think it's important that this you know praying together, because Deborah and I did pray together all the time. We had that prayer life together. But aside from that, some people are like, well, it ain't that deep, you got to date, got to have your date nights.
Speaker 1:All right now.
Speaker 4:Got to have your date nights and the things that you do to get a person are the things you're going to do to kind of keep them. But with that being said, you also have to give space, allow the other person to evolve. I used to tell women I mentor all the time. My husband was married to four different women. They like wait what? Because when I was in my teens I was a person. When I was in my twenties, I was a different person. When I hit them thirties, I was somebody else. Then when I hit them forts, I was somebody else. Then when I hit them 40s, I was somebody else. He didn't get me in my 50s, so he didn't get that part of me. But the daily thing is in the communication. You should know your spouse better than anybody. When something is off, if don't nobody know it, you know it.
Speaker 4:And what we tend to tend to do. Oh, he got a mood or she's in a mood today. Let them have their space. There's a time and space to let them have their space, but you got to be their safe space too. Hey, I notice you know you're not yourself. Is everything? Okay, you know that thing, but it goes back to everything. Okay, you know that thing. But it goes back to those daily practices or habits of checking in with each other, not being, oh, let me check your phone, no, just checking in, just checking in. And you know one of the things that we did, even in our marriage group, we did. You know how some jobs have visions. As a couple.
Speaker 1:What's your vision for your marriage? Hey, the reason why I laugh. I want to ask you this have you been watching our podcast?
Speaker 4:some of them but, I'll be honest, it's been hard to watch some of them because I don't have that right, so you're talking the same things.
Speaker 1:We've been talking about vision, yeah, about, you know, communication about, especially when you say date night, because we talk about date night all the time, you know, and I just wanted people to know that we haven't we haven't had no conversation about this conversation, right, and you haven't been watching because, like you said, you know the time difference and all that kind of stuff that calls on it. So I just want the people to hear from a person that's been divorced, is that you need to do these things to try to avoid divorce, right?
Speaker 1:so they just they just don't think that me and Pastor just talking out the side of our neck you need to do these things to try to avoid divorce, right?
Speaker 2:So they just, they just don't think that me and Pastor just talking out the side of our neck, it's true, and also some of this stuff that you said we've shared in our marriage, in our marriage retreat.
Speaker 2:So it's like really so, yeah, definitely, and yeah. And I, and like we say, the bottom line is you know that communication, remember. I have this thing where I tell the people at the retreat what was it that made you fall in love? And they'd be like, oh, you know what, he was checking me out or whatever. And I'm like so when things start getting rough and y'all bumming, remember that it you know, and then go on a date, communicate. Remember mine, remember why you fell in love and why you want to stay out of the torment of separating and breaking your family apart. Remember that thing, and if you can get back to that thing, everything else will fall in line. But you have to have God in the center of everything. Let me tell you something there is no way in this time and day that anybody's going to make it without God in the center of it. He has to be in the center of it, has to be focused, you know. So, yeah, I appreciate you, sis.
Speaker 1:We got two questions here.
Speaker 2:We got two questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we got one here from um, from Nicole Richards.
Speaker 2:She says Erica, do you see yourself getting married?
Speaker 4:again, I'm not opposed to it, but and however, today I would say no, just because the dating pool, I mean. I'm just being transparent because I'm going to do it God's way, because if I do it any other way, I'm going to be right where I'm at right now and I'm not going back down this road but I'm not opposed. I'm not opposed to it, but it's going to have to be from God, cause I'm going to only do it God's way.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, all right. All right, all right. Malika has a question. You want to read that one.
Speaker 2:Okay. Malika says did you ever have to deal with anyone not supporting you through the process? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how did you handle that.
Speaker 4:It was hurtful and thinking about it now it's really emotional because people, you think that our family co-signing the foolishness that he was doing and it's like really the truth is not determined by how many people believe it. I'm just going to say that Okay.
Speaker 1:Can you say that again?
Speaker 4:The truth is not determined by how many people believe it. And.
Speaker 4:I've never asked anybody to take sides. But when you mess with my kids and then we're talking about the supporting, because it was more than just supporting me, it's been supportive of my children, right, right, and that's where I didn't see the support, I was going to be okay, but it was my kids. It was my kids that I felt were forgotten about. Mm, mm, if I'm being total transparent, it was my kids that was really forgotten about. If I'm being total transparent, it was my kids that was really forgotten about, especially my baby girl, especially my baby girl.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, cause even now, when you say that he doesn't contact, I was like, well, you know that's, that was his baby girl. Now that, now you know that was his baby girl. Now that, now you know. So, wow, ferg wants to say he said this. He says that we need to, as marriage couples, have a quarterly check-in on the relationship and we ask how things are going, what might be irking you, what you don't like, what we can do better.
Speaker 1:You know I like that quarterly check-in, I would go to say maybe almost monthly. You just check, I mean it just, if you just make it a, you know, a daily, daily habit or a weekly habit to just ask you know how, how are things going. Or you know, we all just ask you know how how are things going. Or you know we, I, you know, you know, uh, and and, and, and, just do that.
Speaker 2:And you know, yeah, you and I, I agree with that, because I, um, this morning, I I usually kiss you goodbye before I head out the door, but I kissed you. I actually kissed you to wake you up. So when I kissed you on your cheek, I was like, hey, I'm not going to work today, I'm taking a meal today. You was like, okay, you went back to sleep, I went to the living room, whatever, but the first thing you said to me was baby you okay, you need anything.
Speaker 2:You know not, had you been like yeah, she got something going on. She got something going on in her head and I'm going to go on about my business and stay away from there. I would have felt like you didn't care. Eventually, I would have shared with you what was going on, but I just really needed to regroup and refocus on things. It's the beginning of the year and I'm always overwhelmed at the beginning of the year with so many different emotions and things going on in my head.
Speaker 2:We even talk about this whole menopause thing driving me insane, and I think that has a lot to do with it because it's driving me mad. But, um, and I appreciate that and and, like you were saying, yeah, and that quarterly check-in, that monthly check-in, just check in, just check in check in because you never know what that individual may be going through emotionally. You know, I'm trying to not have this whole anxiety thing going on because I do not want to take that medicine again, that's a switch in a deep calm
Speaker 2:you know. But I did have a good talk, you know, with my, with my doctor, who is also a therapist, and and I feel a little better and I'm ready to take the next step. Take the next step, so I appreciate that and it's so important y'all that community, when I tell you over and over again the communication may not always go the way you want it, but at least it's out on the table, yeah, and you ain't holding it in, so you can always go back and revisit the topic, right?
Speaker 1:But you have to handle it. Yeah, I know my best friend from along is Vince Barnes. Hey, vince Is on and I wanted to know if he's still on. I want to give him a little chance. We had a little conversation today and he's going through something and you hit one of the four a's, you know, uh, one of the four a's, you know, uh, when he, when he said, and he and he really admitted to me that he tried everything. You know, it's like just hearing the story of Erica and him that he tried everything. And you have to make sure because Dr Erica has explained tonight the horrors of this thing, you know you're talking about emotional, the friends, the children and all of these kind of things. It affects you in the long run to where sometimes you, you know you want to trust getting married again. Sometimes you don't want to do that and so you make sure that you try everything and and and again don't move on until God says to move on.
Speaker 1:And but we had a conversation today and you know it was. It was just like you know, I tried everything and I don't't. I don't like when people say I just want what you, and pat said, yeah, you know whatever. He told me that long time ago. But um, I do know him and I know he loved his kids and I know he loved that and an addiction can sometimes mess up your marriage oh yeah, for sure yeah, yeah, all right this one is gonna take your phone yeah but you can't.
Speaker 2:You can't take care of nobody if you're using it for alcohol or drugs or anything like. Oh, gambling, yeah, hey vince.
Speaker 1:I see vince is still online. See if you can call 754-222-2219, 754-222-2219. I would love Vince to call in while Erica's on, or, you know, I'll send him the link to get you know. If you want to be visible, I'll send him the you know the link to join. You know, in the church sometimes we'll say no, don't do it, don't do it. But Erica had pointed out the very four things that I believe that the Bible, you know, can list, that you can move on.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Right, and it does.
Speaker 4:I did my homework because this was near and dear to me, because if I got to go through this God you could already do something with all these tears. You know what I mean, you can do something with all these tears and that was one of the things that I came up with, Eric, in my study was just, you know, when it comes to addictions, abuse, abandonment and adultery, okay, there's a way out.
Speaker 4:There's a way out, and the church will have people thinking that they've got to stay in these abusive, toxic relationships at any and all costs and that's not of God. And the divorce to me is like that taboo in the church, nobody wants to talk about it as a woman of faith, as a woman of God serving, is he on.
Speaker 1:No, not yet Go ahead.
Speaker 4:Okay, I felt like I had done something. My husband left me. So I found myself making sure I'm not in nobody's husband's face, because I didn't want nobody thinking I want Amen, amen, what? Making sure I'm not in nobody's husband's face because I didn't want nobody thinking, I want amen what I'm just being, just being transparent, because it's what?
Speaker 4:divorce a duty, it's almost like the scarlet letter oh, she's divorced, you know what, you know that type thing. So I was always conscious and cognizant of that. Um, because, as some of the women, they they're going to treat you like that, but nobody wants to talk about divorce, aftercare, what that looks like. Who was I supposed to go to in the church, going through this divorce other than my past? Who was I going to go to?
Speaker 2:Wow, I like the way I divorce aftercare. That is so true, because you're picking up the pieces, you're trying to pull things together and you have nobody to help you do that.
Speaker 4:you're doing it on your own who was going to help me without trying to be in my business and find out what's going on? Who was going to walk that thing out with me genuinely and in integrity, according to his word, and not make me feel like I done something wrong or we done something wrong. Who was?
Speaker 4:going to help me, and so that's where, as a church, we've got to do better. So, for me, I used to be ashamed to talk about what I'm dealing with and going through. This happened in 2015. I did not. I never, publicly, outside of our circle, never told anybody my story until over the summer, during my Bible study group here in my neighborhood, and I was so proud of myself. I called Pastor May and told her. I said you know what? Tonight I was able to share my story Because to me, I'm a private person. I just am. I just am. But a lot of times we, as they feel bible talking, preaching people, we suffer in silence because we feel like we don't have an outlet in the church. Yes, and divorce is one of those areas for me. I looked around and all I could think was who can I turn to? So many people could turn to me and I'm there, but who could I go to? Wow. Wow.
Speaker 1:And I would, you know. I would say you know what the church got to do better. You know, you know. I would say you know what the church got to do better. You know, um, you know the church has to do better. And even married couples, we have to do better.
Speaker 1:When you know, when one of our sisters and brothers are going through a divorce and don't it's not time to condemn and all that kind of thing. I mean, you can ask specific questions, but it's not time to condemn, but be there for them Because, like I say, divorce aftercare. You need to have that Because you know, and I'm not talking about where people are, they just noncommittal. You know, again, it's a contract, they keep it as a contract, but I'm talking about you had these two individuals that love God and time they love each other. Something happened, right, and abandonment happened. And the scripture says you know we've got to love our wives as we love the church, and it's you know, just vice versa of loving each other. But when one of those four things happened, you're not loving that person. You're not doing that. So yeah, it happens.
Speaker 2:That's another thing that I say to people who I say well, you know, because you know, I had my whole domestic violence situation back in the day but was not married at the time. But when I tell you know people who are going through stuff in their marriage and whatever the situation, I'm like you know. You know, husbands are supposed to love their wives like Christ loved the church. Christ loved the church. He don't abandon the church, he don't abuse the church. You know, he don't cause pain to the church.
Speaker 2:So if you say you love Christ and you're supposed to love me like Christ loved the church, then I don't see where this relationship is going to be. This relationship is toxic, because everything that is not supposed to be is what you're doing. It's what's happening. So that's one thing that I have to watch for them. But I am grateful to have so much more now that I can encourage young out to them. But I am grateful to have so much more now that I could encourage young women when they're going through, and I don't just, you know, encourage them on how to stand. If he don't want to talk to you, write him a letter stick it on the refrigerator stick it in the bathroom mirror.
Speaker 2:You got to communicate and I appreciate you, sis, I really, really do. I know it had to be, you know, tough for you to put it out there, but I'm grateful that you did and I'm so grateful and so proud that you've made it over. You're just doing so well. I'm always talking about you to other people, you know my sis.
Speaker 1:I got to get to Texas. I got to get out, but I will see you in Palm.
Speaker 2:Beach. I'm going to come. I'm going to get in my little. It's the snow. You got to get to Texas, but I'm going to see you in Palm Beach though. I'm going to come. I'm going to get in my little con drive right on to you Because I definitely could use some us time, and you know yes.
Speaker 4:And I do encourage the young women to learn to pray over you. Well, not just the young women, but just spouses as a whole. Learn to pray over your spouse when they're sleeping. Yeah, yes, learn to pray, because when he was dealing with that mental health, I mean as soon as I went to sleep, I got the oil and I'm laying hands like you know like like right really just really learning to pray for him.
Speaker 4:Even even during all this I never stopped praying because he could not run my prayers. But that's one of the things I empower the young women I talk with. Patsy is teaching them how to pray for their husbands and cover them and always tell them don't ask God to change them. You want God to change them for him. Not for you, but for for him. Because when they get changed for god, everything goes on my yes, yes, you are so right all right, you're preaching girl, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, we all we'll. Well, you know, hey, this I eggs. Uh, I heard podcasts go two or three hours so I'm not worried about it, but you know we got time thing and um, so I really want to again. I want to just back up what you know co-sign, what Pastor said we really appreciate you coming on to share your story. And also, you know you made it over and you know you're doing good. You know, and so we're proud of you on that, erica.
Speaker 1:Give you a shout out, so tonight, well, Vince couldn't come on. You know he says he's emotional right now, but the kids in the other room too, and so I always mess with him. We the same age. I think he got a kid that's six years old.
Speaker 2:He got a toddler.
Speaker 1:We're 58. He got a kid that's six years old we 58. He got a toddler.
Speaker 1:No way, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, I can just imagine my boy, vince man, all right, but tonight has been such a powerful and insight conversation, so we thank each and every person who joined us. Please make sure if you have not liked that video, if you have not liked, please make sure you like, like and share. Tonight we are located, we are all over Spotify, amazon Music, youtube Music, apple Podcasts If you want to listen to this again and just be encouraged, knowing that all of these things can happen. But you can make it over. You can make it over. If Erica can do it, you can do it.
Speaker 1:Yes, Yep absolutely so, Erica. Before we get ready to go, do you have any final words that you want to say to the audience?
Speaker 4:No, just remember marriage is a covenant, not a contract. Don't go into it with terms and conditions or it's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's a covenant, a God given covenant. Do it God. It will last. I promise you, it will last.
Speaker 1:And when God is in it, there is no limit there is no limit, there is no limit, all right, and please don't forget to subscribe to our channel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't forget to go on our website. We're going to start doing a blog there, so we want to make sure you subscribe to our channel. And also we have a Marriage in Real Life podcast YouTube channel as well. So we want you to subscribe not only to Real Life TV one, but also subscribe to that Marriage in Real Life podcast and please leave a review. Please leave a review. It really helps us to reach more listeners who care about building lasting love and know that this is Marriage in Real Life. All right, baby, I want to thank you. Thank you again for you being you.
Speaker 2:Well, you're quite welcome. Who else can?
Speaker 1:it be, I'm glad, I'm glad you can't be nobody else, right, all right. So we want to say good night, good night. Thank you again, erica, thank you, thank you for everybody who is watching. God bless, thank you for joining us. Yes.
